Snapshot on button

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nottooloud
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Snapshot on button

Trying to put a snapshot on a user button with BCM 4.0 OSX.

Manual says:

  1. To do this via BC Manager, in the button dialog box (of a free B-Control button), go to the ‘Custom output’ tab and press the ‘Record MIDI messages’ button (i.e. the round red button on the toolbar). This opens a dialog box saying ‘Record MIDI messages’. Then press the ‘Snapshot’ button, wait for the B-Control to send the data, and press OK. The CC messages are then assigned to the B-Control button of your choice — all you have to do is send this button definition to the B-Control.

When I do that, I get 110 messages, 221 bytes.

I press OK, and I get Output (lines 1, data size 223) - ERROR: Invalid size.

OK is greyed out. No joy.

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

The reason BC Manager grayed out the OK button is that the number of bytes exceeded 125, which is the BCF/R's limit.
This is discussed in the very next question (38) in the FAQ section, but it should be mentioned in question 37 as well. I'll also see if I can make the error message in the dialog box more explicit.

Mark.

nottooloud
nottooloud's picture

Hah!  It's the next sentence.

OK, the FAQ says 37, here’s how to do this, and then 38, but here’s why it doesn’t work. 

So how do I put a snapshot on a button?

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

Hah!  It's the next sentence.

OK, the FAQ says 37, here’s how to do this, and then 38, but here’s why it doesn’t work.

Yeah, I was tempted to start my previous reply with the word "ironically", but that might have seemed like putting the blame on you, where it's obvious that question 37 should have mentioned it.
You should realize that the FAQ section was concocted over many years, mostly based on questions by multiple people in the Yahoo BC2000 forum, which is why the section can still be a bit messy here and there.

So how do I put a snapshot on a button?

Well, if the full snapshot consists of messages taking up more than 125 bytes, you can't.
All you can do is remove any non-essential messages.
Or put the snapshot on two (or even more) buttons? Clumsy, but if you're desperate...

  Mark.

nottooloud
nottooloud's picture

Now I’m puzzled. I thought a snapshot was the current state of every control. If so, I'd expect it to be the same size each time, and so always too big. No?

I don’t need any switch states, but I do need 52 knobs. Guess I need to grab it in the regular line-at-a-time buffer, figure out which are the switches, and edit them out?

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

I thought a snapshot was the current state of every control. If so, I'd expect it to be the same size each time, and so always too big. No?

A snapshot contains the current standard and/or custom output of all controls in the selected preset. (See BC MIDI Implementation.pdf, sections 13.2 and 23.4.)
The fact that custom output (which can be variable in length) is included in snapshots, already means that snapshot length is variable.
But probably more relevant in your situation: controls without any standard or custom output definition don't generate any output in the snapshot.
All in all, snapshot length is highly variable, and it is indeed very possible for a snapshot to consist of only 125 or fewer bytes.

nottooloud
nottooloud's picture

Can I define the controls I’m not using as having no output? That might be easy. 

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

The controls that have no standard or custom output definition don't produce any output.
So you can simply clear the definitions of any elements you're not using.
In BC Manager this can be done very easily: in a list window ('Buttons', 'Encoders', 'Faders'), select one or more (sequential) elements, then execute Initialize (via Ctrl+Del, the white button on the toolbar, or the Edit menu). (Actually it suffices to set Type to None on the "standard output" tab and remove any output lines on the "custom output" tab, but that's more work and would leave other settings like "Show value", "Default" etc. intact, which could be confusing.)
Note that the numbers of buttons, encoders and faders with any kind of definition are shown in corresponding columns the "Presets" window.

Hope this helps,
   Mark.

nottooloud
nottooloud's picture

Excellent, thanks. 

btw, is there a way to get notification of a reply here? I looked unsuccessfully. 

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

You can subscribe to each individual forum via your user page (which you arrive at after logging in): go to the Subscriptions tab, then look under Categories. (And from there, don't forget the options under the Settings button!)
This will give you notifications of all new topics and comments in that forum. But usually there are only one or two "ongoing" topics, so this shouldn't lead to too much spam: you can always switch a forum off again when "your" topic is done. Alternatively, you can restrict the number of notifications a bit by choosing "Daily digest" under Settings.

The software on which my website runs does include an alternative system, in which users can subscribe to new comments to individual existing topics. I had this system active for the first year (around 4 years ago). However, this system doesn't allow users (in particular: me!) to be notified of new topics, so I was glad when I finally found the Subscriptions module.
But it was very confusing to have these two systems side by side (with their totally different ways of subscribing, and different email notification format, etc.), so I switched off the individual-topic system.

Hope this helps,
   Mark.

nottooloud
nottooloud's picture

That worked. I cleared all the buttons, and it fits.

Thank you, sir.