possible with MIDI commands to "softly" set BCF2000 faders on layer change?

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w4chl
w4chl's picture
possible with MIDI commands to "softly" set BCF2000 faders on layer change?

BCF2000 is a great box, but one annoying feature is the "thwap" sound of faders moving to -inf position from a layer where most faders are set nearer to 0db. 

Is there a MIDI command or BCF2000 setting to soften the thwap sound of faders all moving positions?

This is especially distracting when a BCF2000 is moved from a back of hall position to "in the audience" as we do in small churches using XAIR mixers.

Our current workaround is to set sliders on each layer one might pull up on  to something slightly greater than -inf, so the sliders don't clatter so much when shifting layers. Most times that is ok if our default is to enable mute on all those channels or groups. 

Best, Mark

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

Hi Mark,

It's an interesting problem. I'm not sure what the best set-up is in your circumstances, but here are some ideas:

You may want to experiment with the Sync parameter (in BC Manager editable via the General tab of the fader dialog box): if you set Sync to Move or Pickup, switching to another preset doesn't trigger the fader's motor. (Note that if the preset's Snapshot parameter is on, the fader's actual value still gets sent to the BCF's MIDI Out.)
Obviously there's a big drawback to not updating the fader position automatically. However, one method is to set Sync to Pickup and "Show value" on: then if you move the fader after a preset change, the value to pick up is shown in the display until you reach that value. It depends on the situation whether this method is practical.
See section 18 of BC MIDI Implementation.pdf for further discussion of these matters. (You will notice that BC Manager's Sync parameter is actually an amalgamation of the Motor and Override parameters.)

A totally different solution might be to use the BCF's push encoders for your volume levels instead of the BCF's faders.
Note that each preset offers 4 Encoder Groups ("pages"), so you can put e.g. panning on another page.
But of course using encoders for controlling volume is physically impractical in live situations in which one wants to change more than two volume levels simultaneously.
Still, if using encoders to control volume is feasible in principle in your situation, it may be an idea to use a BCR2000 instead of a BCF2000: instead of 8 faders, the BCR has 24 encoders. (In my experience a BCR tends to be about 25% cheaper than a BCF, though I haven't checked prices recently.)

Hope this helps,
   Mark.

w4chl
w4chl's picture

TX! Wish there was a "like" button in this forum tool!

Spiritos
Spiritos's picture

I have the same "problem". Although not really of a practical nature but when mixing late at night -which often is the case- I'm often actually startled by the sudden moving of the faders when I'm concentrating.
One would think it would be possible to adjust the speed with which the faders move into position but since Mark (with his expertise) doesn't have an answer in this direction I figure this can't be done on a configuration level.

A quick question though about your workaround "-inf".  Could you explain or elaborate on this a bit. I think some of it is lost in translation for me but I want to see if it is something I could try as a workaround as well.

Regards.

w4chl
w4chl's picture

I did find a reference here to slowing down the BCF2000 faders. Here is the one line 

 ... For changing fader positions, I slowed them down using [$1 500] > [line] > [ctlout]...

Perhaps someone else can get this to work. The entry is an old one in the Cycling74.com forum, so how do I implement this?

w4chl
w4chl's picture

I meant the "- inf" position to represent "- infinity" at the bottom end of the fader travel. When I use MCU mode and switch pages, the faders that move to the bottom or "- inf" position from near 0db are the ones that clatter. The fader control seems to hit the plastic groove in the track when moved from a position near 0db on a prior page/layer. Now it could be that this old BCF2000 needs some attention to the belts inside the unit. Here is a link and a reference for tightening up the belts and restoring more accurate positioning on a BCF2000

Spiritos
Spiritos's picture

Thanks for explaining. To me however even the upward motion of the faders snapping in position (without "inf" position). I suppose it just comes with the territory of relative cheap motorized faders. Not that I'm bashing Behringer but low productioncosts must show somewhere.

I do think slowing down the faders would actually help a lot. It's not that I need them to be in place that swift anyway. Alas I'm barely focused enough to work with BCmanager, let alone Max /Cycling74 code. Hopefully someone else picks up your cue!

Spiritos
Spiritos's picture

It seems I can't edit posts so just to correct my first sentence: I find the upward motion sound annyoing as well..