BCR2000 Grouping

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fabians
fabians's picture
BCR2000 Grouping

I just bought my Behringer BCR2000. I would like to know if it's possible to control one of the top encoders as a group to map all the other encoders to move at the same time.

My main DAW is Propellerheads Reason 9.5

There is a youtube video that shows exactly what I am trying to accomplish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK230uZLgrI

It will be very much appreciated is someone can share some info on this.

Thanks.

Royce
Royce's picture

HI

Are you just wanting to change the LEDs (lights)?

Yes - then it's nothing to do with your DAW. The BCR sets any control with the same output message (say volume continious controller or CC 7 ) to the one value.

Changing the 'Master' encoder value will set all controls with matching output messages to the value just output by the Master.

Although it isn't shown, if he changed any of the other controlls all the others would change as well - in short there isn't really a master.

Just program the encoders that you want to be in sync to the same CC message and with the same max and min.

You can vary when the leds start moving by having a higher min value than the master (the encoders on the right). Play around with the min and max to get different speeds as the controls stay in sync.

The top encoders  have a switch so you can program that switch to be the min values and all the encoders, including the master will reset to their minimum value.

All the best

Royce 

fabians
fabians's picture

Royce,

Thank you so much for your fast answer, I want you to know that I appreciate that.

All this is new to me. Including using the BC Manager which I am still learning how ti use it.
This is what I really try to acomplish. Let's say I have a song in Reason that has 20 channels in the mixer, and I want to bring all the faders down at the same time using the BCR2000, instead of having to do one by one. In fact one of the reason I bought the BCR2000 was to acomplish this.

If your description above will do this, then my question is: Where in BCManager I enter these values. Since I am still newby and I am trying yet to find things out in BCManager? In other words If you kindly can give me more details where to enter these values?

Royce, Thank you.

Royce
Royce's picture

Hi,

Just in case your not familiar with hardware mixing desks, the more expensive ones have extra faders called group faders. The idea being if you had the trumpets, the trombones and the tuba comming into channels 1,2 and 3, you could get a balance between them set up and then instead of sending each of the channels  to the main faders you would send them to a group fader that you could call "brass" and the output of that would be sent to the main faders. When you needed to lift the brass you would just push the "brass" fader and they would all get louder and mix between them would be maintained.

On the BCR, if your synth is set up to play the trumpets on Midi channel 1, troms on channel 2 and the tuba on channel 3 you could set up the left hand, lower 3 encoders to be volume (CC 7) on channel 1,2 and 3 respectively and you could mix between the instruments.

If you set up a "brass" group encoder (any single BCR control can output multiple Midi messages in this case CC7 on channel 1 ,2 and 3) the first movement of the "brass" encoder sets the trumpet, the troms and the tuba to that new value and suddenly your brass mix is gone. With the brass encoder you will be controlling the volume of all three, but the mix between them is lost.

In your case if you had a single encoder that adjusted all the 20 others, the first twist of that encoder would put that new value into every one of the 20 channels. You could do a fade, but you would loose the mix.  Normally, to do a simple adjustment of the overall volume, you leave all the 20 faders where thay are and adjust the main faders.

I am not familiar enough with recent version of Reason to know if you can route all 20  channels to a group fader or if you can adjust the main output fader, but I suspect that is where you need to look.

By the way there is another Midi Continious Controller (CC) that is like a second volume that you can use to get around the brass fader problem above. It is called  "Expression Controller" CC 11. The real channel volume is a combination of CC7 and CC11. Each of the brass channels maintains the same CC7 value and is adjusted by a group encoder. The mix between them is set up with CC 11.

I don't know if reason also responds like this, certainly many hardware synths do.

Let me know if it can be done in Reason and I'll show you how it can be controlled by the BCR

 

All the best

Royce

fabians
fabians's picture

Royce,

 

Thanks once again for your kind response.

Yes Reason can respond to the CC11.

If you can show me how to set up the bcr, will be great.

Thanks again

 

 

Royce
Royce's picture

Hi

When you say  " Reason can respond to the CC11 ", Reason needs to be able to set a channel volume using both CC7 and CC11 so you need to check that first.

In earlier versions, Reason took over the BCR and programmed it on the fly, so I'm not sure if it won't over write your patch, but this works in most DAWs, so you can try this

Although Mark has a great editor available here,  I think you can do a few tests without having to learn the editor just yet.

Part 1

Enter control edit mode (hold EDIT button then move or press a control - perhaps twist the encoder on the bottom left. The encoder's number, E49, appears in the display.)

Top row far left encoder (E1)  is the Midi message type. Twist it to select CC.

E2 is the Midi channel - select Ch 1

E3 is now (since you selected CC with E1) the CC type - select 7 for volume

E4 is the Min value and is probably already 0, if not make it 0. 

E5 is the Max value - make it 127. 

E6 should be Abs, E7 1d (one dot) & E8 on (means "display the value in the top display when you turn the encoder")

Press Exit and that encoder is set up

Now you need to do the same steps again for the bottom encoder second from the left, E50.

It should be exactly the same but make the type 11 - expression, and press EXIT to finish setting up that encoder.

You can use MidiOx to check that the encoders are putting CC 7 and CC11 if you want to.

It might be a good idea to store your work  just in case Reason overwrites the edit buffer where it is now. Press STORE and use the < and/ or  > to select an empty patch or one you no longer want. Pressing STORE again will write over what was in the selected preset with what is in your edit buffer (with the modified E49 and E50).

Start Reason and set up and record a track on Midi channel  1. Perhaps this is when you will see Reason take over, but perhaps you can turn this feature off.

Play back the track and make sure either of the encoders can adjust the volume and both can silence the track when twisted to the Min 0.

You now need to set up your ecoders for the tracks as before with CC7 and also a single encoder with CC11 on all Midi channels. That is, twisting this encoder will output blocks of 16 messages, a CC 11 message for each of the 16 channels. This will be your Master fader.

To do this you will need Mark's editor, so try Part 1 to make sure you can get  Reason to  work first and then let me know and we will move on to Part 2.

All the best

Royce