BCF2000 + QY-70?

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Oscillog
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BCF2000 + QY-70?

Hi there everyone, 

I hate to press the dreaded 'new topic' button right after signing up here, but while it seems like there is a massive wealth of info here, I couldn't find anything specific to my situation after diving about 8 pages deep into the existing posts...

I've had a Yamaha QY-70 for a long time, love it to death, know it pretty well. I have been looking for a way to make the QY's internal 8-channel mixer correlate with a real-world mixer, and purchased a BCF2000 after reading that it cooperates with SysEx stuff pretty well. I bought an Evolution U-Control UC33 a while back thinking it would do the job, and then learned the hard way that the mixer faders inside the QY, as well as other parameters I wanted control over in a live situation, were in SysEx values and not MIDI CC. 

So, hopefully I haven't made the same mistake a second time! The good thing is, I do have a number of other uses for these two controllers in the event they don't work with the QY in the way I need them to - my DSI MoPho comes to mind - but I wanted to ask...help? 

I have pored over the manual for the BCF and I'm really having a hard time even figuring out the right boot mode the thing needs to be in for the QY, as there's nothing else on the table but the two units, no additional keyboards etc. I also have concerns that I've bought this used (as most people today probably do!) and that there are likely settings in place from the previous owner that need wiping? Though I have seen here posts that say there's no such thing as a factory default on the unit, which kinda makes sense because it's a controller. 

Anyway, I would massively appreciate any info - even pointing at other posts or threads! It seems like the BCF has one helluva legacy about it and that alone is a cool feeling to be a part of now! 

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

I couldn't find anything specific to my situation after diving about 8 pages deep into the existing posts

You could have tried "Search" (at the very top of the page).
However, "QY70" or "QY-70" doesn't yield anything except this very topic, so presumably you're the first one to ask about it in this forum smiley

purchased a BCF2000 after reading that it cooperates with SysEx stuff pretty well

Yes it does.
Unless access to the QY70's internal mixer via SysEx is really difficult (for instance if the QY70 requires SysEx messages longer than abt. 125 bytes (which I doubt)), you should be able to make the BCF2000 control the QY70's mixer.

However, making a BCF2000 button/encoder/fader produce SysEx output isn't easy: you have to program it "manually" via an external editor + uploader (e.g. BC Manager), using ".tx" statements (called "custom output" in BC Manager). See section 14.6 of BC MIDI Implementation.pdf for technical details.
BC Manager also allows you to create "SysEx model definition files", which can greatly simplify setting up multiple BCF2000 elements; see section 19 of the BC Manager manual for discussion.

I'm really having a hard time even figuring out the right boot mode the thing needs to be in for the QY, as there's nothing else on the table but the two units, no additional keyboards etc.

You're talking about "boot mode", but actually the BCF2000 has two modes determining its operation:

1. Emulation Mode:
In the BCF2000's default "B-Control" mode, it works with 32 memory presets (and 1 temporary preset), but it also has 4 emulation modes, in which it basically operates as certain Mackie controls. To send SysEx to your QY70, the BCF2000 needs to be in B-Control mode.

2. Operating Mode:
This determines the "wiring" of the BCF2000's MIDI input and output connectors. There are four "U" modes and four "S" modes:

In any of the four U modes, the BCF2000 itself (i.e. its buttons/encoders/faders) only communicates with the computer connected to its USB cable; the BCF2000 can't control an external device like a QY70. (At least not directly: you can reroute the output signals from the BCF sent to the computer by means of an application (e.g. MIDI-OX, BC Manager or MIDI Tools) running on the computer, but this is rather complicated.)
Typically you would use U-1 to program the BCF2000 via BC Manager.

In any of the four S modes, the USB connector of the BCF2000 is dysfunctional, and the BCF2000's buttons/encoders/faders talk to one or more devices connected to the BCF's MIDI OUT A and/or B sockets.
If you want a bidirectional connection between your BCF and SY70, you must avoid feedback from/to your SY70, which severely restricts which S modes and connectors you can use:
S-1 and S-2 are impossible, since they always provide feedback from the BCF's MIDI IN to both its MIDI OUTs.
You can use S-3, provided the SY70 is connected to MIDI OUT B/THRU.
However, S-4 with the SY70 connected to MIDI OUT A is the most natural choice.

I also have concerns that I've bought this used (as most people today probably do!) and that there are likely settings in place from the previous owner that need wiping?

 Simply use BC Manager: you can see/wipe/replace any existing presets and global settings.

I have seen here posts that say there's no such thing as a factory default on the unit, which kinda makes sense because it's a controller.

The BCF2000 does have factory defaults, both for its global settings and its presets. However, it doesn't have an inbuilt way to restore these factory defaults.
If you wish to restore its factory presets (even though these won't help you program SysEx for your SY70...!), you must download these factory presets from the web, then use e.g. BC Manager to upload them to your BCF2000.
However, Behringer took down their BCF2000 download webpage about two years ago, so nowadays you can only download these factory presets from third-party sources. For convenience I've just made them available from the Mountain Utilities website: https://mountainutilities.eu//userfiles/b-control

Hope this helps,
   Mark.

Oscillog
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Mark, 

Yes! Thank you so much for such a fast and informative post! I should have mentioned that I used the search function, and did indeed query both QY70 and QY-70, with no results, before going through manually to see if anything else posted was relevant to my issue. Apologies, I was a bit frayed at the edges by then! 

Re: Defaults - Yes, I realize these won't help me get closer to my QY-70 control setup with SysEx, but not knowing what state the thing is in means I also don't want anything currently in there to hinder my progress. So, I will absolutely take you up on the factory presets, just to have a starting point that I absolutely know is "ground zero" for the unit. 

As far as the SysEx strings for the QY-70's mixer channels, I've previously found this very useful FAQ for the Yamaha that shows the actual strings for the channels: https://www.johannes-emmerling.de/xp-30/QY70_FAQ.htm Presumably, I just need to now familiarize myself with the BC Manager that you have graciously provided, and use those strings. 

From what I can understand in your post, I need to put the BCF in U-1 when I am interacting with it via the computer/BC Manager and S-4 when I am table-topping it with my QY-70 (or anything else) - perfect!

I think if I can get my head around this stuff, this will really open up the QY for me, especially in terms of using it in live sets. Thank you again for all the help! 

And also, as soon as I get on top of all of this, I will absolutely pass a donation your way for all of your work here. Without this place I think I may have just given up!

Oscillog
Oscillog's picture

Okay, quick update - 

I've managed to install the correct drivers for Win 7 64-bit, get BC Manager to recognize the BCF, ran the "Receive all data" operation. Now I understand I don't need any kind of factory reset when this shows me the exact state of the unit at the moment. 

So, I'm now at the point where I am looking at a notepad file for the SysEx values of the Alpha Juno (just seemed like a good basic one to start with for editing) and I'm trying to figure out how to write this SysEx document for the BC Manager to use. https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/6/317936/QY70E2.PDF This is the best info I could find regarding the SysEx stuff on the QY-70, but I'm struggling to figure out the exact SysEx lines I need to copy into the document that concern the QY's internal mixer channels. Gonna take a break and then keep digging!