BC Manger to Korg DW 8000 error - Wrong Manufacturer

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dw8000
dw8000's picture
BC Manger to Korg DW 8000 error - Wrong Manufacturer

I am a newbie. I am having an issue with BCmanager with my Korg DW8000.  When I try and send the DW8000 Preset sysex file to my BCR 2000 I get the following error in a pop up window:

 

Error: MIDI system exclusive error

Wrong Manufacturer

Message 1 

 

I have downloaded the DW-8000 ini (Configuration settings) file from Mountain Utilities.

I stumbled on a drop down menu in the "Encoders" window under "insert SysEx Parameter" that listed may other synths but it did not include any Korg devices. 

I have copied and pasted the file to the following folder on my PC:

Computers->Local Disk->Program Files (x86)->Mountain Utilities->BC Manager->Models

 

I now see the DW-8000 in the drop down menu but still get the error. I have restarted the PC after copying the file over. I have also reinstalled BC Manager.

 

Does anyone know how to fix this error?

 

Many thanks in advance!!

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

The "Wrong manufacturer" error may occur when BC Manager has uploaded a SysEx message to a BCR and is expecting a confirmation SysEx message from that BCR specifying Behringer (i.e. $00 $20 $32) but instead receives a SysEx message specifying a different manufacturer.
You may want to monitor the incoming MIDI messages via the "MIDI input messages" window (press Record) to find the actual offending message.

A side-note: you shouldn't put a SysEx definition file (with the ".ini" extension) in "C:\Program Files (x86)\..."; instead, use "C:\Users\Username\AppData\Local\Mountain Utilities\BC Manager\Models". (The third button in the "Insert SysEx parameter" dialog box opens this folder.)
See section 18 of the BC Manager manual for further details.

Hope this helps,
Mark.

dw8000
dw8000's picture

Mark,

Thanks for the quick reply.

 I guess I have something else going on. I hit record on both MIDI input messages BCL and General, and when I try and open up the Preset SysEX file (DW-8000_Ch1) I still get that error right away and no activity whatsoever shows up in either of the MIDI input messages windows.  I also opened up the MIDI System Exclusive Messages window and hit record, no activity here either.

BC Manager does detect my BCR2000, I have my Keyboard connected to Midi ports 1 and 2. During initial install it even showed me error that MIDI port 3 was not communicating, but since nothing is connected to the MIDO Thru connection on the BCR, this should be correct. I disabled port 3 and now only have MIDI port 1 and 2 enabled in BC Manager.

In the B Control Window I am able to choose File-<Open  and open up the SysEX file "BCR2000-BCM-48-BCM-24-BCM-16" and with my Bcontrol highlighted when I select MIDI->Send all data this seems to work fine as my BCR 2000 lights go crazy.  I see lots of meessage in the MIDI input messages General and MIDI System Exclusive Messages windows when I send this file.  All of the messages were basically  F0 00 20 32 00 15 21 (00-08) (00-0D) 00 F7

I am trying to use this same method to send the SysEX file "DW-8000_Ch1" and this is when I get the Wrong Manufacturer error.

Am I performing this procedure incorrectly?  From what I understand the SysEX file "BCR2000-BCM-48-BCM-24-BCM-16" is required and then the SysEX file "DW-8000_Ch1" is the actual presets that allow BCR to control my DW8000. 

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

First, to prevent any confusion: I'm not the author of the DW-8000 preset available from the Mountain Utilities user area - in fact my knowledge of the DW-8000 is (or at least: was until now...) basically zero.

However, here are some tips that may help:

1. To see what any of the syx files you mention actually contain, you can have BC Manager convert them to text files containing the bare BCL lines: from the main window's File pull-down menu, run Convert -> "Syx to text". (Note that for the output file you can select various extensions - though the default ".txt" should suffice in this situation.) Then you can study these files by opening them in any text editor (e.g. Notepad).

2. Another method to study what each syx file actually contains is to create a new "BCR2000 context" for just this syx file: from the B-Controls window, run B-Control -> New BCR2000, then File -> Open.

By using the above methods I've found the following:

BCR2000-BCM-48-BCM-24-BCM-16 contains only one preset, which contains only generic Control Change assignments.
However, this file is "naughty" in two ways:
1. it contains a $global section, which among other things sets Operating Mode to U-3: this is potentially dangerous, since this may modify the setup of an unsuspecting end user.
2. It copies the (temporary) preset ("preset 0") to memory preset 1 (via "$store 1") and clears all other memory presets. Obviously all this is really dangerous! (Ideally a syx file like this should contain just the temporary preset: the user can then decide what to do with it.)

DW-8000_Ch1 does not contain a $global section, which is good.
However, the single preset in this file is copied to memory preset 6 - which is (again) quite dangerous.
The preset itself contains mostly "custom output" definitions with SysEx messages (apparently created using DW-8000.ini).

So I can't see how BCR2000-BCM-48-BCM-24-BCM-16 could be necessary in your situation: DW-8000_Ch1 simply offers a different, unrelated preset.

I still don't understand how uploading DW-8000_Ch1 to a BCR could lead to "Wrong manufacturer" though.

In any case, you should realize that you probably have to use your BCR2000 in different Operating Modes when uploading a preset from BC Manager to the BCR and when using that preset on the BCR to control your DW-8000:

To upload a preset from BC Manager to the BCR, Operating Mode U-1 is best, since it only provides the one input port and the one output port from/to the BCR that you need: this precludes any interference from anything connected to the BCR's hardware MIDI sockets.
So you may try uploading DW-8000_Ch1 in U-1: does this still produce "Wrong manufacturer"?

U-3 is possible too for uploading a preset to the BCR, but only if you use the BCR's input port 1 and output port 1; the presence of the other ports makes things more error-prone.
And note that in U-3 the BCR itself won't send anything to its hardware MIDI output ports: in other words: in U-3 the BCR can't control a synth connected to MIDI OUT A or B.

Probably the best way to make a BCR control a synth is by setting the BCR's Operating Mode to S-4 and connecting the synth's MIDI input to the BCR's MIDI OUT A. Alternatively, you can use S-3 + MIDI OUT B.
In either case you can also connect the synth's MIDI output to the BCR's MIDI IN. (In all other setups this would create an undesired feedback loop from the synth's output via the BCR back to the synth's input.)

Hope this helps,
Mark.

dw8000
dw8000's picture

Mark,

Success!!!

I manually built my own preset based off of sysex parameters in that "DW-8000_Ch1" file that was loading onto Preset 6 and have the BCR at S-3 and it is working now in Preset 1. That "BCR2000-BCM-48-BCM-24-BCM-16" that is listed as the filename in the B-control window for my BCR, I understand your concern with this. I am wondering now if I can remove that, but am afraid to jack with this much now that I have it working. I also have that Preset that was failing listed in Preset location 6. What is the best way to remove this?

I would also like to use the BCR-2000 as my MIDI interface between my computer and my DW8000, so I can use a Patch Editor/Librarian program with it. What would be the best Mode to leave the BCR in to accomplish this and still work with BC Manager?

Again, many thanks for your help on this!

 

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

"Removing" a preset (from a file and/or the BCR) technically involves clearing/initializing this preset.
So in BC Manager's preset list window you select the preset, then execute Initialize (either via the button with the white square or via the Edit pull-down menu), and finally you upload that preset to the BCR via MIDI -> Send.
(It may be a good idea to set up a file (e.g. ".bcr" or ".syx") that mirrors all the data (mainly the 32 presets) currently on your BCR. See section 7 of the BC Manager manual for further discussion.)

To work with BC Manager in combination with software controlling your synth, I think the following considerations apply:
First of all, you clearly need to set the BCR to a U mode, because the S modes don't use the USB cable to the computer.
Secondly, U-1 only provides access to the BCR itself, so U-1 is impossible too.
U-3 seems the most natural choice: from the computer you have straightforward, separate access to the BCR's MIDI IN, MIDI OUT A and MIDI OUT B/THRU.
U-2 differs from U-3 in that MIDI OUT B/THRU doesn't receive data from the computer but from MIDI IN; in other words, MIDI OUT B/THRU indeed functions as "MIDI THRU". I suppose this would only be useful if you want to control another external module via the synth's keyboard.
U-4 does "weird" things like merging the data received at MIDI IN and the data sent by the BCR itself, which is probably to be avoided in your situation.
So to summarize: I think U-3 is best, though U-2 may be possible too.

Hope this helps,
Mark.