SysEx not received by FCB

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SurfCat
SurfCat's picture
SysEx not received by FCB

Hello, thank you for making and supporting the FCB util software.
Recently I bought a FCB to control effects and loops in reaper with guitar. However I ran into a issue (noob mistake?). Following this video I tried setting up the FCB to control NeuralDSP through reaper, but the SysEx is never received.

Issue:

Sysex is not received by FCB, I came to this conclusion since the green light doesn't go off and on again. Also I used a midi reader to check the messages. 6-0 should be notes but are pc messages on the readout. Also the midi input and output viewer show activity when used/tested.

Setup:

 

Any help would be appreciated.

SurfCat
SurfCat's picture

Also when I set the notes in the editor as shown in the video the editor always sets 'CNT1' and 'VAL1' to 0 and the columns of those and 'NOTE' to a green background. Unsure what this means and how to avoid/disable it.

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

when I set the notes in the editor as shown in the video the editor always sets 'CNT1' and 'VAL1' to 0 and the columns of those and 'NOTE' to a green background. Unsure what this means and how to avoid/disable it.

The color change to bright green is explained in section 6 of the manual of FCB1010 Manager under View -> Selected preset:

If the FCB1010's firmware (as set in the FCB1010 options dialog box) is version 2.5 and Direct Select (as set in the Global Configuration window) is disabled, the backgrounds of CNT 1 and NOTE are bright green when NOTE is enabled but CNT 1 is disabled. This indicates that the "tap-tempo function" is active. (See section 2.6 of the FCB1010 User’s Manual.)

So if there's a difference between what happens in the video and what you experienced, you must have done something differently. You have to be very precise concerning the various operations that can be accessed via the menu of the Presets window: Disable, Enable, Fix and Increment.
To understand more easily what's happening, open the Preset window (e.g. by pressing Enter in the Presets window): in the Preset window you can edit all parameters of a single preset; so you can experiment with switching the CNT 1 and NOTE checkboxes on/off, and see how the colors change.

Hope this helps,
   Mark.

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

Sysex is not received by FCB, I came to this conclusion since the green light doesn't go off and on again.

I noticed that the guy doing the video summarizes what you have to do as 3 points. I'm not saying these points are wrong, but you really have to follow the 6 steps mentioned in FCB1010 Manager's "Send data to the FCB1010" to the letter, or things can easily go wrong. The FCB1010 is a finicky device!
See MIDI -> Send in section 6 of the manual of FCB1010 Manager for some pitfalls.
Besides the FCB1010's "temper", many other things can cause the Send operation to go wrong: a cable might be defective, the USB-to-MIDI device might be at fault, etc.

Hope this helps,
   Mark.

SurfCat
SurfCat's picture

I followed the 6 six steps and read some of the manual. Still no luck. After going through the process changing 1 thing at a time (like only using the midi in cable) I  decided to to follow another path, that is ordering a usb midi interface cable from Roland. I saw this being a suggestion for some other issues (like long midi messages?).

Thanks for the help, I will wait for the cable to arrive and post updates. Should be in 3 days or so.

SurfCat
SurfCat's picture

So I got it working, turns out it's most likely my usb/midi cable. The first cable wasn't broken but just not compatible with the FCB1010. I cannot find the comments I found that led me down the right path. Without going into the edge cases where it will not work I will just advise anyone using the FCB1010 with the Roland UM-ONE

I don't know if it's noted anywhere but this is pretty much the only compatible USB - MIDI cable type for the FCB1010. I think other interfaces might work but I suggest any future readers to not cheap out on the MIDI interface (My first cable was 20,00 and the roland around 45.00).

Thanks again for the support Mark :)

Algirdas193
Algirdas193's picture

Hi guys. Hope you are solving issues with FCB1010.

However I have one not mentioned already or at least i couldn't find it.

By the way I didin't find how to make new thread so this one sounded related.

I have used FCB for two years on my old macbook High Sierra 10.13.6 successfully. Now I have new Mac M1 Monterey 12.3 and I couldn't send FCB manager files to the pedal anymore. I tested same steps with old mac and it works fine, but on this new one it just doesn't.

What is different in setups:
OLD MAC: use USB port and 2.2.1 FCB manager, M-audio usb to midi interface
NEW MAC: use USB-C port with USB-C to USB adapter (to connect M-audio) and 2.2.4 FCB manager.

I did the MIDI monitoring and realised that FCB manager 2.2.1 sends different message than 2.2.4.
2.2.1 sends Behringer 7 bytes F0 00 20 32 01 0C F7
2.2.4 sends Behringer 2352 bytes F0 00 20 32 01 0C F7 ...........

With old mac I see how M-audio MIDI OUT flashes when i execute last step to "Send the data to FCB"
With new mac M-audio MIDI OUT doesn't flash.

Any ideas? I was thinking to install 2.2.1 version of manager on my new mac but cannot find the file on the web. 

Would be grateful for any insights. For now I am out of ideas and have to use another laptop to update pedal data. 

 

 

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

I did the MIDI monitoring and realised that FCB manager 2.2.1 sends different message than 2.2.4.
2.2.1 sends Behringer 7 bytes F0 00 20 32 01 0C F7
2.2.4 sends Behringer 2352 bytes F0 00 20 32 01 0C F7 ...........

There are several things I don't understand about this:
You state that 2.2.1 works and 2.2.4 doesn't, but from the above it seems that 2.2.4 is working well and 2.2.1 isn't, because the SysEx message FCB1010 Manager sends to the FCB1010 consists of 2352 bytes.
However, your description of 2.2.4's 2352 bytes as "F0 00 20 32 01 0C F7 ..........." can't be correct, because F7 automatically terminates the SysEx message started with F0, so the bytes after F7 get interpreted as subsequent MIDI messages. So did you mean "F0 00 20 32 01 0C ........... F7"?
All of this makes me wonder how exactly you "did the MIDI monitoring". There's what the FCB1010 receives and what it returns.

I was thinking to install 2.2.1 version of manager on my new mac but cannot find the file on the web.

There is an archive page at the Mountain Utilities website, but even this archive page no longer offers FCB1010 Manager 2.2.1 for macOS. That's because the space at the webhost is very limited, and there is no reason to keep offering this obsolete version, particularly since it contains a few serious bugs, fixed in later versions, as specified in section 2 of the manual.

But to set your mind at rest I've now made 2.2.1 available again temporarily:
https://mountainutilities.eu//dl/fcbman-2.2.1.dmg
I'll remove it again in a few weeks' time.

As implied by section 2 of the manual, there is absolutely no difference in MIDI handling between versions 2.2.1 and 2.2.4.
So you should upgrade to 2.2.4 on all your machines.

The differences between 2.2.1 and 2.2.4 that you're experiencing must be caused by differences in external factors: hardware and/or software.

Hope this helps,
   Mark.

Algirdas193
Algirdas193's picture

Thank you for knowledge Mark. Ant thanks for the installer.

I tried to install 2.2.1 on this new mac, but still same problem, M-audio MIDISPORT Uno just doesn't read 2352 bytes message. 

And yes, you are right, I read it wrong, sysex message on new mac is F0 00 20 32 01 0C ........... F7, while on the old mac only 7 bytes message. Not sure how it is possible. any ideas? Would love to have this "wrong" message again, because it works better haha.
 

Algirdas193
Algirdas193's picture

Did another test, ant realised that old mac sends 2 messages one after another.
First is 2352 bytes and another is 7 bytes F0 00 20 32 01 0C F7. After holding down pedal restarts and updates the data from the manager

On the other hand new sends only 2352 bytes and doesn't follow with 7 bytes message.

I tried installing 2.2.4 on my old mac, and behaviour didin't change, it still sends two messages one after another and works just fine. Wandering if it is some kind of compatibility between new mac and m-audio interface drivers or just fcb manager is not fully compatible with Mac M1 Monterey 12.3.. 

Also, which behaviour is normal, one 2352 bytes message or 2352 followed by 7 bytes message?
 

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

which behaviour is normal, one 2352 bytes message or 2352 followed by 7 bytes message?

FCB1010 Manager's "Send" operation only sends one SysEx message: the one consisting of 2352 bytes, which fully defines the FCB1010's setup.

The message consisting of 7 bytes is a "mutilated echo" of the 2352-byte message.
My guess is that this echo is generated by the FCB1010. If this is indeed the case, you should not see the echo if there is no cable connected to the FCB1010's MIDI OUT/THRU socket during FCB1010 Manager's Send operation.
(It's been years since I analyzed the FCB1010's behavior, so I don't remember exactly, but it might matter whether the FCB1010's "Merge" setting is on or off.)
Alternatively the echo could be generated by your MIDI interface, but that seems less likely.
To test which device generates the echo, you could disconnect your FCB1010 from your interface completely, connect a MIDI cable directly between the OUT and IN sockets of your MIDI interface, then have FCB1010 Manager perform the Send operation and monitor what comes back from the MIDI interface.

Algirdas193
Algirdas193's picture

Okay so I have read section about sending midi messages to the FCB manager in the manual, and it turns out that probably my midi interface is not compatible anymore, because in version 2.2.1 the app was sending shorter midi messages, while in 2.2.4 it is a lot longer and M-audio MIDISPORT Uno is not receiving the message anymore. 

Disappointing.. Maybe anyone has 2.2.1 installer?.. not sure if it is compatible with Monterey 12.3 but better try than spend some more on unnecessary gear.