FCB1010 won't receive sysex dumps after first successful attempt. Red display dot flashes instead of green config.

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cookiemonster
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FCB1010 won't receive sysex dumps after first successful attempt. Red display dot flashes instead of green config.

I performed a successful sysex dump/patch of the FCB1010 using the mountain utility editor no problem. Went exactly as planned, but naturally decided I wanted to tweak the presets a little to improve my workflow while playing...

But when I went to send the new dump (via green button in editor UI/pedal 7 engaged on FCB), instead of the FCB green config light flashing, a separate red dot flashes in the digital number display and the FCB returns an empty sysex message (F0 F7). Exiting global config on the FCB with the down button saves nothing, I don't think it's even receiving the data to begin with. 

To troubleshoot I used python and the mido library to code receive/send functionality myself to rule out the mountain util. But I have the exact same outcome... the FCB flashes the red dot, returns an empty sysex message (F0 F7), and no data is saved.

FYI: I can program manually still using the foot pedals; I can receive sysex dumps from FCB no problem (through the mountain utility and my python scripts); I am connecting the FCB with midi cables through an AXE I/O one USB interface.

I can't find anything online, or anyone else who has this issue. Figured I'd just ask here if anyone knows what might be going on. 

Can a sysex dump from the editor corrupt memory/the chip? Why did it successfully receive  a dump once but never again? 

cookiemonster
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Forgot to add... I have performed several factory resets of the FCB at this point as well. Nothing seems to work anymore. 

For the kicks here is STDOUT from the message receiver I wrote with python... the first message is a memory dump from FCB (hitting pedal 6), the second message is a response from a failed attempt to upload a syx created in the mountain util editor. 

Received message 1...
Message Type: sysex
Hash: 418f3f9ffda681d4e07bed8b60e602c736573896
Writing syx messages to syx/fcb.syx
Writing plain text syx messages to syx/fcb.syx.txt
Received message 2...
Message Type: sysex
Hash: e2b65c6b83df45012fc1ef6cf5aa29c85e27a97e
Bytes: 240 (11110000), 247 (11110111)

cookiemonster
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Here is a vid of the red light on the FCB when attempting to send: https://imgur.com/a/k4UIks7

cookiemonster
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P.S.: This is a brand new, fresh out of the box, unit. No after market proms etc. I did open it up initially to confirm the firmware it is using v2.5. I took a pic so I wouldn't forget: https://imgur.com/l12JAYu 

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

Can a sysex dump from the editor corrupt memory/the chip?

No. The SysEx message from FCB1010 Manager just contains the standard data area that an FCB1010 with firmware version 2.4/2.5 expects.
In addition to the preset data, this data area contains some global settings of the FCB1010, but the FCB1010 ignores some of these settings (like "Direct Select" and "Merge"). That's why in the Global Configuration window of FCB1010 Manager the ignored settings are disabled by default, to avoid confusion. (The only way to change the ignored settings is via the FCB1010 itself.)

But when I went to send the new dump (via green button in editor UI/pedal 7 engaged on FCB), instead of the FCB green config light flashing, a separate red dot flashes in the digital number display and the FCB returns an empty sysex message (F0 F7). Exiting global config on the FCB with the down button saves nothing, I don't think it's even receiving the data to begin with.

Some ideas:

  • Have you read the discussion of the Send operation in section 6 of the FCB1010 Manager manual? (Esp. the pitfalls being mentioned.)
  • Could the red dot flashing in the FCB's display indicate that some other MIDI messages are being received? (And these messages could then interfere with the SysEx message from FCB1010 Manager.)
  • You state that "the FCB returns an empty sysex message". This implies that a cable was connected from the FCB's MIDI OUT/THRU socket to your USB-to-MIDI device during the Send procedure. This might have caused an unwanted loop, causing the "F7 F0" message. So try the Send procedure when there is no cable connected to the FCB's MIDI OUT/THRU socket.
  • To test your USB-to-MIDI device: don't use your FCB, but connect the MIDI output socket of your USB-to-MIDI device directly to its MIDI input socket; then send the SysEx message from FCB1010 Manager and see if (and in what form) this message gets back to FCB1010 Manager's "MIDI input messages" window: the full message (2352 bytes) should be returned. If only a portion of the message gets returned (let alone only "F7 F0"), the problem probably lies with your USB-to-MIDI device.

Hope this helps,
   Mark.

cookiemonster
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I had tried all of those things, except looping back into my interface. I can confirm that I receive empty sysex directly from the axe I/O ONE, but i receive CC changes just find. It seems to be just sysex. I am going to give up, I might order a cheap midi usb converter just to confirm its not the axe I/O suddenly not liking sysex messages, it is just odd that it worked the first time. If I figure anything out I'll update this thread just in case some other poor soul ends up here on the internet. 

Thanks for the input Mark, your tools are great, and your ongoing active support and advice is very admirable. I write software myself and can't image still supporting some of it after even a few months, especially for random lay person strangers on the internet who didn't pay for it. You are like MIDI Jesus and a saint.  

Sample of received CC messages followed by a "send all" when plugged back into the USB interface and using mountail util's MIDI controllers window: 

Received message #38:...
    control_change channel=0 control=3 value=93 time=0
    Message Type: control_change
    Hash: a6ce356bc3e1620897b2edc62ea99310939e4fbe
    Bytes: 176 (10110000), 3 (00000011), 93 (01011101)
Received message #39:...
    control_change channel=0 control=3 value=120 time=0
    Message Type: control_change
    Hash: 24282ed322bed89c73e7289e391072c17ed6bd95
    Bytes: 176 (10110000), 3 (00000011), 120 (01111000)
Received message #40:...
    sysex data=() time=0
    Message Type: sysex
    Hash: e2b65c6b83df45012fc1ef6cf5aa29c85e27a97e
    Bytes: 240 (11110000), 247 (11110111)

Mark van den Berg
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Thanks for your kind words! I definitely don't try to be a saint: the whole "enterprise" (my software and website) has just been a case of one thing leading to another...
And I never imagined that FCB1010 Manager would one day become the most popular of my applications. Several people praising FCB1010 Manager in YouTube videos must have got something to do with this.

I can confirm that I receive empty sysex directly from the axe I/O ONE, but i receive CC changes just find. It seems to be just sysex.

Does this happen to all SysEx messages, or only to the FCB's super-long (2352 bytes) message?
My MIDI Tools applications allows you to test this easily: via "System messages" in the main window's View pulldown menu, you can open the "MIDI System messages" window, which allows you to send SysEx messages of any length.

it is just odd that it worked the first time.

Indeed.
The obvious cliché question would be "are you sure it actually worked the first time?"
But other than that: was your setup (cables etc.) different the first time, e.g. was there no loop?

I am going to give up, I might order a cheap midi usb converter just to confirm its not the axe I/O suddenly not liking sysex messages

In recent years many people in this FCB1010 forum have reported problems with FCB1010 Manager's Send and Receive operations. And mostly the cause of these problems turned out to be that a USB-to-MIDI device was unable to handle the super-long FCB's SysEx message.
So I'm starting to think that it might be a good idea to set up a list of known USB-to-MIDI devices that can or cannot be used with the FCB. That could help prevent a lot of frustration. But how many USB-to-MIDI devices are there?

   Mark.

cookiemonster
cookiemonster's picture

After buying a $10 generic USB midi adapter on amazon I can now send sysex dumps to the FCB successfully. I don't know if the AXE I/O ONE firmware/config just doesn't like sysex dumps out of the box, or if I changed some sort of setting, but it was the culprit. Thanks so much for the help. 

cookiemonster
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I agree it is most likely the size of the sysex dump, my first attempt worked but I remember noticing some presets maybe didn't patch properly but that could be my flawed human recollection so I didn't report it. So it was possibly truncated and padded by the interface but not sure, it is very difficult, sometimes impossible, to get useful feedback from an interface to debug. 

To that point I think curated a list of known good and bad devices would be super helpful. If you decide to make the list here is my contribution:

Good: TENINYU USB to MIDI Cable Converter 2 in 1 PC to Synthesizer Music Studio Keyboard Interface Wire Plug Controller Adapter Cord 16 Channels Supports Computer Laptop Windows and Mac (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L8KFYBK?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&...)

Bad: IK Multimedia AXE I/O ONE 1-Channel USB-C Audio Interface (https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/axeioone/index.php?p=info). Firmware version 1.1.0.

If you want me to do any tests of these devices or need any additional info let me know. 

Mark van den Berg
Mark van den Berg's picture

To that point I think curated a list of known good and bad devices would be super helpful. If you decide to make the list here is my contribution:

Thanks for reporting your experiences!

I've now created a webpage that lists all the known compatible and incompatible MIDI interfaces:
FCB1010-compatible MIDI interfaces

As yet these lists are pathetically short, but I've also created a forum topic in which people can report their experiences with particular MIDI interfaces, so that these lists can be expanded:
Reports of MIDI interface compatibility with FCB1010

cookiemonster
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If memory serves, I may have performed an AXE I/O firmware update in between the first successful attempt and subsequent failures. Can't remember 100% so take that with a grain of salt. 

mag2045
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I seem to be having the same issue as cookiemonster. I'm using macOS Monterey and after having no luck with IK one... I purchased a Teninyu usb midi converter. when I press the green send button the blue out light on the cable shutters but the FCB doesn't receive. Help, I'm a total noob with no programming savvy whatsoever.